Karbohydratkilder med veldig høy GI som "booster" på trening?

[AnonymBruker]

Er det noen som har eksperimentert med kilder av karbohydrater med veldig høy GI (ekstremt raske) under stykretrening?

Jeg er selvfølgelig klar over at man ikke generelt bør spise raske karbohydrater før trening (av naturlige grunner som at det kan hindre muskelvekst), men jeg tenker mer i forhold til en "booster" f. eks på siste settet på de dagene man trener maksimalt og til failure (og der det ikke spiller så stor rolle at boosten vil være kortvarig). Og ja, jeg er klar over at inntak av raske karbohydrater fører til dårligere muskelvekst. Men restitusjon skjer jo strengt tatt _etter_ trening, og _under_trening vil det være mer formålstjenlig å ha energien til å ta de siste settene helt ut?

Er dere med på resonnementet? Er det noen som har gjort seg noen erfaringer med det?

Anonymous poster hash: a793a...000

[Supraspinatus]

For styrketrening har det ikke noe særlig effekt med mindre du har veldig lange økter. Og trener du styrke så jobber du stortsett med ATP/kreatinfosfat som energivei og begrenset med laktat (glukose). Det skal derfor ganske mye til før man tapper glykogenlagrene like mye som ved høyintensitets-trening. Så i utgangspunktet skjer ikke utmattelsen fordi du går tom for glykogen.

Den viktigste årsaken til teknisk svikt i (teknisk failure) under styrketrening er utmattelse i sentralnervesystemet. Det vil ikke hjelpe med karbohydrater for å friske det opp.

[Supraspinatus]

Artig nok skrev Charles Poliquin akkurat om dette her i går kveld på facebook. Nå er ikke han fasiten nødvendigvis, men dette er en man som har rimelig mange medaljer i trenerboken sin:

My take on carb intake during training.



There are two opposite views on carb training during strength training.

1. Zero carb

2. A 2:1 to 3:1 carb to protein drink sipped during a workout. The quantities are small 50-75 grams of carbs versus 25 of protein, usually a whey protein of some form.


Now, both based on research and experience, here is what we know:


Carbs during training inhibit GH release, and important fat burning hormone, that also has the function of rebuilding connective tissue.


Carbs stimulates the production of insulin, however it also stimulates serotonin production, which tends to mellow out your training drive. Hence, you don’t put those extra kilos on the bars, or do those extra reps, which are the ones that really stimulate growth.


Carbs function by raising insulin lower cortisol. Most people immediately think. "Yahoo! I am more anabolic!" NOT. Research now points that cortisol is your friend during training. It is now believed to be the primary signal to induce hypertrophy response.

When you train for strength and/or power, you want maximum focus and drive. That depends on the neurotransmitters dopamine and acetyl-choline. Taking carbs before and during lowers those neurotransmitter levels, taking the wind out of your sales.

Who can handle the most quality work wins. Multiple sources of carnitines, BCAA’s, beta-alanine, citrulline malate will increase work capacity


If you eat properly, your muscles will have plenty of glycogen to handle the training loads. So the carb intake has been adequate well in advance, not preworkout such that it negates cortisol, you will have plenty of glycogen to handle the training loads" - this is the underlying tenet of leaders like John Keifer's work/ system.


Now here interesting finding from the research field: if you swish carbs in your mouth before training, and spit them out you improve average training intensity 2.8%versus 2.3% when carbs where swallowed. When subjects where given artificial sweeteners, no ergogenic effects where seen. (Jeukendrop et al., 2010) Some scientists believe that the ergogenic effect came from altered fatigue perceptions.


Now, if you look at the positive effects of carb/protein drink during for hypertrophy and are riled up about it, you are looking at the world through a straw. Yes immediate protein synthesis is greater when using these drinks, however absence of cortisol, the primary tissue signaling hormone for strength/hypertrophy is just not there.

In conclusion,

Before and during strength workouts: zero carbs, aminos acids work best.

Post-training: carbs and protein as soon as possible, liquid form being best. For a lean 80 kg man (sub 10%) that would be 120 to 160 grams of carbs, 40 to 50 grams of protein, plus 15 to 30 grams of leucine.

Lean, meaning sub 10% bodyfat. If fat, stick to protein (50 g), glutamine (10 to 40 g) and leucine (10-15 g).

For a 60 kg lean woman (less than 16% bodyfat) that would be 55 to 65 grams of carbs, 20 to 30 grams of protein, plus 10 to 15 grams of leucine.


However, this is assuming that the clients were training hard, not yapping on cell phones, or doing Sudoku drills between sets.

Those recommendations are based on my experience ONLY. There exists studies to prove or disprove whatever tenet you wish. Training knowledge will always be trumped by training wisdom- the latter being a product of knowledge + experience.

Bill Kraemer and I had a great laugh in Norway last year, because people read abstracts of lame “strength training” studies, quote them, and treat them as gospel. The “strength training” being often 10 sets of 10 at 50% of leg extensions…