Kva hadde hendt om Sauron fekk tak i ringen?

[Nattens rytter]

Kva trur de hadde hendt om Frodo hadde teke på seg ringen og Gollum ikkje fekk tak i han? I det niande bindet av 'The History of Middle-earth' ser me at Tolkien freista seg med fleire alternative forlaup før han bestemte seg. T.d. at det var Sam som kasta Gollum i eldhavet.
 

I eit av breva hans skildrar Tolkien òg ei alternativ ending:

It is an interesting problem: how Sauron would have acted or the claimant have resisted. Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination?

Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand – laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt - saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible.
 

The situation as between Frodo with the Ring and the Eight96 might be compared to that of a small brave man armed with a devastating weapon, faced by eight savage warriors of great strength and agility armed with poisoned blades. The man's weakness was that he did not know how to use his weapon yet; and he was by temperament and training averse to violence. Their weakness that the man's weapon was a thing that filled them with fear as an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility. I think they would have shown 'servility'. They would have greeted Frodo as 'Lord'. With fair speeches they would have induced him to leave the Sammath Naur – for instance 'to look upon his new kingdom, and behold afar with his new sight the abode of power that he must now claim and turn to his own purposes'. Once outside the chamber while he was gazing some of them would have destroyed the entrance. Frodo would by then probably have been already too enmeshed in great plans of reformed rule – like but far greater and wider than the vision that tempted Sam (III 177) – to heed this. But if he still preserved some sanity and partly understood the significance of it, so that he refused now to go with them to Barad-dûr, they would simply have waited. Until Sauron himself came. In any case a confrontation of Frodo and Sauron would soon have taken place, if the Ring was intact. Its result was inevitable. Frodo would have been utterly overthrown: crushed to dust, or preserved in torment as a gibbering slave. Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. 

Kva hadde so hendt? Sauron tok nok med seg Frodo til Barad-dûr og lèt han leva og sjå alt han hadde kjært gå til grunne. 

 

[mingus]

Sauron ville jo ikke ødelegge og la alt gå til grunne sånn som Morgoth, han ville jo bare ha orden og ting på sin måte.. men man kan jo se for seg hvordan Midgard ville blitt, når han finner Mordor hjemmekoselig og velger å bosette seg der uten vegetasjon og i konstant kullosforgiftning fra Mount doom 😆

Tror han hadde tatt Frodo av dage uansett da. Only death..

[Nattens rytter]

 

 

“right!’ he said. ‘Say no more! You have taken no harm. There is no lie in your eyes, as I feared. But he did not speak long with you. A fool, but an honest fool, you remain, Peregrin Took. Wiser ones might have done worse in such a pass. But mark this! You have been saved, and all your friends too, mainly by good fortune, as it is called. You cannot count on it a second time. If he had questioned you, then and there, almost certainly you would have told all that you know, to the ruin of us all. But he was too eager. He did not want information only: he wanted you, quickly, so that he could deal with you in the Dark Tower, slowly.

 

Endret 13. november 2022 av Nattens rytter

[AnonymBruker]

Sauron var den egentlige protagonisten. Lotr er skrevet fra seierherrens perspektiv. Og da med solid vridning av fakta.

Sauron var produktiv, og skaffet bl. a., jobber og husly for de arbeidsledige og hjemløse. Disse ble senere holocaustet av "de snille" i historien.

Anonymkode: 9fd5f...128

[Gjest ChadMcChadson]

Det hadde vært fred for det hadde vært diktatur 

[AnonymBruker]

Tja....kanskje vi finner det ut her på planeten om New World Order kommer?

Anonymkode: 17daf...7b6

[AnonymBruker]

Eller forresten, vi trenger ikke det en gang. Kreftene som styrer denne verden er onde nok som de er, og er allerede i ferd med å ødelegge alt på planeten.

Anonymkode: 17daf...7b6

[AnonymBruker]

dere vet at det er eventyr ikke sant ?

Anonymkode: fa12a...556

[AnonymBruker]

AnonymBruker skrev (10 minutter siden):

dere vet at det er eventyr ikke sant ?

Anonymkode: fa12a...556

Kampen mellom det gode og det onde foregår her på planeten akkurat som i Ringenes Herre. Det er faktisk et veldig viktig eventyr.

Anonymkode: 17daf...7b6

[Nattens rytter]

AnonymBruker skrev (2 timer siden):

Sauron var den egentlige protagonisten. Lotr er skrevet fra seierherrens perspektiv. Og da med solid vridning av fakta.

Sauron var produktiv, og skaffet bl. a., jobber og husly for de arbeidsledige og hjemløse. Disse ble senere holocaustet av "de snille" i historien.

Anonymkode: 9fd5f...128

Mykje slavearbeid. Slavane fekk Núrn i gåve av Aragorn etter at ringen var øydelagd. 

[Nattens rytter]

Diverre er ikkje fanfiction på høgd med Tolkien:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12334062/1/The-Reign-of-Sauron-An-Alternate-History

 

[AnonymBruker]

Nattens rytter skrev (59 minutter siden):

Mykje slavearbeid. Slavane fekk Núrn i gåve av Aragorn etter at ringen var øydelagd. 

Orkene var ikke slaver under Sauron. Og Aragorn holocaustet dem.

Anonymkode: 9fd5f...128

[Nattens rytter]

AnonymBruker skrev (31 minutter siden):

Orkene var ikke slaver under Sauron. Og Aragorn holocaustet dem.

Anonymkode: 9fd5f...128

Det var ikkje orkane som arbeidde i gruvene i Gorgoroth eller dreiv jordbruk i Núrn. Korkje Sauron eller Morgoth var Eru Ilúvatar, so skaparverket deira trong mat og sømn som andre skapningar i Middle Earth. 

[Nattens rytter]

Kva trur de har gått føre seg i Rhun? Er Alatar og Pallando døde? 
 

Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled fromMelkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

Endret 13. november 2022 av Nattens rytter

[Entern]

Han hadde gjort alle menneskene til slaver og utryddet alvene, dvergene og hobbitene. Og så hadde han lagd et industrielt helvete over hele planeten.

[Entern]

Nattens rytter skrev (På 13.11.2022 den 18.33):

Det var ikkje orkane som arbeidde i gruvene i Gorgoroth eller dreiv jordbruk i Núrn. Korkje Sauron eller Morgoth var Eru Ilúvatar, so skaparverket deira trong mat og sømn som andre skapningar i Middle Earth. 

Stemmer, det var mennesker.

[Leifr]

Entern skrev (5 minutter siden):

Han hadde gjort alle menneskene til slaver og utryddet alvene, dvergene og hobbitene. Og så hadde han lagd et industrielt helvete over hele planeten.

Eventuelt hadde Valar intervenert. Det ville vel ha vært omtrent like destruktivt som forrige gang.

[Entern]

Leifr skrev (19 minutter siden):

Eventuelt hadde Valar intervenert. Det ville vel ha vært omtrent like destruktivt som forrige gang.

Ja det kunne jo skjedd, og ja.

[Nattens rytter]

Spengler, Hamsun og Tolkien hadde alle eit nattsvart syn på industrialiseringa.