Muslimenes Hijab

[WubWub]

På ‎09‎.‎07‎.‎2017 den 20.50, Madde123 skrev:

Nå har jeg lest litt, og det sto at kvinnen skal bære med seg hijaben. Men hva som er ment og hvordan den skal bæres, er litt usikkert, sto det 😊

Da har du nok lest feil. En kort introduksjon til hodeslør/hijabs og hva islam sier om kleskoden ;

Historical Background:

 

While many Muslims call 'hijab' an Islamic dress code, they are in fact oblivious of the fact that the concept of 'hijab' has nothing to do with Islam nor with the Quran.

 

In fact, the 'hijab' is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through the hadith. Any student of Jewish traditions would know that the head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

 

Some Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while the nuns cover their heads all the time. The tradition of covering the head was practiced thousands of years before the Muslim scholars claimed the 'hijab' as a Muslim dress code.

 

The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used to wear 'hijab' not because of Islam, but because of tradition. In Saudi Arabia for example, all men cover their heads, not because of Islam but because of tradition.

North Africa is known for its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim men wearing 'hijab' instead of women. Here the tradition has the 'hijab' in reverse. If wearing 'hijab' is the sign of the pious and righteous Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been the first woman to be counted.

In brief, 'hijab' is a traditional dress and has nothing to do with Islam or religion. In certain areas of the world, men are the ones who wear the 'hijab' while in others the women do.

 

Mixing religion with tradition is a form of idol-worship since it implies setting up other sources of religious laws besides the law of God.

 

The word 'khimar' in the Quran:

The word 'khimar' can be found in the Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as containing the 'hijab', or head cover, by pointing to the word, khumoorihinna, (their khimars), forgetting that God already used the word 'hijab', several times in the Quran, but none to mean head cover. Those who are not shackled by pre-conceptions will easily see that there is no command in 24:31 for women to cover their heads. The word 'khimar' does not mean 'hijab' nor head cover. Those who quote this verse usually add the words (head cover) and (veil) after the word 'khumoorihinna', usually between brackets. These additions are their own words not the words of God and they are clearly added to the text to imply a meaning not found in God's words. The words of 24:31 are:

 

And say to the believing women to lower their gaze and to guard their private parts and not to show their beauty spots except that of it which is normally shown. They shall also cover their cleavage with their 'khimars'. They shall not show their beauty spots except in the presence of their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, their slaves, the male attendants who have no sexual desire and the children who are yet to attain awareness of women's nakedness. They shall not strike their feet so as to reveal details of their hidden beauty spots. You shall repent to God all you believers so that you may succeed. 24:31

 

The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a khimar, such as a curtain, a dress. A table cloth that covers the top of a table is a khimar. A blanket can be called a khimar, and so on. The word 'khamr', is used in the Quran for intoxicants. It is a derivative of the word khimar. Both words mean: that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body, a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind. Traditional translators, obviously influenced by hadith and culture, claim that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that is the head cover. Thus, they mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their hair!

 

In 24:31 God instructs women to use their khimar (cover/garment) to cover their cleavage. Covering the chest can be done by a dress, coat, shawl, shirt, blouse, a scarf and so on.

http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html

Endret 18. juli 2017 av WubWub

[AnonymBruker]

På 7/8/2017 den 20.27, AnonymBruker skrev:

Hijab er da blitt diskutert her en haug av ganger. Stort sett ender det med dårlig stemning og ukvemsordene sitter løst. 

Du virker ung og uskyldig, men hvis du starter en diskusjon om dette her på KG vil ditt syn på livet for alltid forandres. 

Vil du virkelig starte en debatt om dette? 

Hijab er som alle andre religiøse plagg, et uttrykk for religiøs tilknytning. Det ligger ingen god eller dårlig vurdering i dette. Altså er det få eller ingen som har noen formening om hijabens farge, utforming, lengde osv. Like lite som folk flest bryr seg om andres sokker.

Men hijab skiller seg ut på et vesentlig punkt fra andre religiøse plagg. Og det er ofte dette som er stridstema. 

Og det er at hijab ikke bare brukes som et religiøst symbol, men også som et symbol på sømmelighet og moral. Og det er problematisk. En hijab-bruker sier dermed at de som ikke bruker hijab er usømmelige og umoralske. Dette er det umulig å komme bort fra.

Så, min anbefaling til muslimer som bruker hijab er å begrunne bruken ut fra religion, og ingenting annet. Muslimer må altså slutte å tillegge bruken moralske vurderinger. Så lenge de ikke slutter med det, vil plagget alltid være kontroversielt og møte mye motstand i samfunnet, egentlig helt unødvendig.

Anonymkode: f8e5b...337

Jeg bruker hijab, men det sier mer om meg enn hva det sier om andre som ikke bruker det. Jeg kjenner dem ikke, og hvem som er mindre sømmelig har jeg ingenting med. Tror egentlig at det er ett fett. 

Anonymkode: f0dab...082

[AnonymBruker]

På 7/9/2017 den 20.25, Elseby13 skrev:

Jeg har lest disse versene mange ganger og ordene hode eller hår finner jeg ikke.

I arabiske land dekker både kvinner og menn håret, pga sterk sol og sandstormer. Det er deres kultur og klesdrakt, men det har ingenting med islam å gjøre.

Du har rett, men ordet khimar er brukt, som har en rekke betydninger:) det betyr faktisk hodedekke:) slå opp rota kh+m+r og man finner mye interessant, jeg så en video av nouman ali khan faktisk som snakker om dette:) 

Anonymkode: f0dab...082

[AnonymBruker]

Jeg bruker hijab. Dette fordi at jeg vil komme nærmere Gud. Det positive er at jeg blir glad av det og det negative er at folk skal sette ord i munn på meg. Drar om Khomeini og sånt haha.. Jeg og Khomeini har ikke engang samme tro. Han er shia og jeg er sunni. (Hadde oppgave om ham til eksamen.. ) 

Om noen ikke bruker hijab er deres valg. Det sier lite om hvordan de er som personer. 

Anonymkode: f0dab...082

[WubWub]

19 minutter siden, AnonymBruker skrev:

Du har rett, men ordet khimar er brukt, som har en rekke betydninger:) det betyr faktisk hodedekke:) slå opp rota kh+m+r og man finner mye interessant, jeg så en video av nouman ali khan faktisk som snakker om dette:) 

Anonymkode: f0dab...082

 

The only dress mandate in the Qur’an is for women to cover their chests with their coverings (khimar).

And say to the believing women to lower their gaze and to guard their private
parts and not to show their beauty spots except that of it which is normally
shown. They shall also cover their chests with their 'khimar '. Quran 24:31

Now one can debate all they want about whether khimar means coverings or just headcoverings; even if khimar means headcovering, this is because that covering was part of pre-Islamic dressing and is incidental to the Quranic verse. The reality is - the Qur’an only orders women to draw their khimar over the chest or bosom and this was because women at that time used to walk around topless and stamp their feet to get the attention of men. The fact that the words 'hair' and 'head' are not found in 24:31 should be sufficient for any unbiased reader to conclude that there cannot be a command to cover parts of the body if these parts are not mentioned in the first place.

So no, there is no Qur’anic verse that commands women to wear a hijab to cover their hair or to cover their face by a veil of any kind.

The whole custom of Muslim women covering their hair is NOT from the Qur’an, but is actually borrowed from the customs of the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Sassanian Empire. This custom started in the 8th century when the Abbassid empire adopted the customs of other empires including dress. Covering one’s hair for women became a sign of noble and upper class status. Only after that did religious scholars start equating this customary head-covering with a religious obligation despite there being zero Qur’anic verses to support it.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hijabens historie og hva koranen sier om den (kort konkludert; ingen på bud) ;

 

 

 

[Mari Y]

På 18.7.2017 den 11.15, WubWub skrev:

Da har du nok lest feil. En kort introduksjon til hodeslør/hijabs og hva islam sier om kleskoden ;

Historical Background:

 

While many Muslims call 'hijab' an Islamic dress code, they are in fact oblivious of the fact that the concept of 'hijab' has nothing to do with Islam nor with the Quran.

 

In fact, the 'hijab' is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through the hadith. Any student of Jewish traditions would know that the head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

 

Some Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while the nuns cover their heads all the time. The tradition of covering the head was practiced thousands of years before the Muslim scholars claimed the 'hijab' as a Muslim dress code.

 

The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used to wear 'hijab' not because of Islam, but because of tradition. In Saudi Arabia for example, all men cover their heads, not because of Islam but because of tradition.

North Africa is known for its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim men wearing 'hijab' instead of women. Here the tradition has the 'hijab' in reverse. If wearing 'hijab' is the sign of the pious and righteous Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been the first woman to be counted.

In brief, 'hijab' is a traditional dress and has nothing to do with Islam or religion. In certain areas of the world, men are the ones who wear the 'hijab' while in others the women do.

 

Mixing religion with tradition is a form of idol-worship since it implies setting up other sources of religious laws besides the law of God.

 

The word 'khimar' in the Quran:

The word 'khimar' can be found in the Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as containing the 'hijab', or head cover, by pointing to the word, khumoorihinna, (their khimars), forgetting that God already used the word 'hijab', several times in the Quran, but none to mean head cover. Those who are not shackled by pre-conceptions will easily see that there is no command in 24:31 for women to cover their heads. The word 'khimar' does not mean 'hijab' nor head cover. Those who quote this verse usually add the words (head cover) and (veil) after the word 'khumoorihinna', usually between brackets. These additions are their own words not the words of God and they are clearly added to the text to imply a meaning not found in God's words. The words of 24:31 are:

 

And say to the believing women to lower their gaze and to guard their private parts and not to show their beauty spots except that of it which is normally shown. They shall also cover their cleavage with their 'khimars'. They shall not show their beauty spots except in the presence of their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, their slaves, the male attendants who have no sexual desire and the children who are yet to attain awareness of women's nakedness. They shall not strike their feet so as to reveal details of their hidden beauty spots. You shall repent to God all you believers so that you may succeed. 24:31

 

The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a khimar, such as a curtain, a dress. A table cloth that covers the top of a table is a khimar. A blanket can be called a khimar, and so on. The word 'khamr', is used in the Quran for intoxicants. It is a derivative of the word khimar. Both words mean: that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body, a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind. Traditional translators, obviously influenced by hadith and culture, claim that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that is the head cover. Thus, they mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their hair!

 

In 24:31 God instructs women to use their khimar (cover/garment) to cover their cleavage. Covering the chest can be done by a dress, coat, shawl, shirt, blouse, a scarf and so on.

http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html

Tror dette er ganske riktig observert 👍 

[Tyrk40]

Ja litt humor må jo til også 

[Djungelvrål]

På 9.7.2017 den 21.13, NotNaomi skrev:

Det var i grunnen bibelsitater jeg var ute etter :-) men ok. Ser fremdeles ikke helt hvorfor muslimer som ikler seg hijab er annerledes enn nonner. Så jeg undres bare litt hvorfor det aldri har vært debatt om hvorfor nonner skal skjule sin kvinnelighet. Sitt hår osv. Samt at de ikke har speil. Det er jo litt tankevekkende.Du er unnskyldt.

Det er ikke så mange tiår siden norske gifte kvinner hadde det likedan, de måtte gå med konelin eller skaut etter de var gift for å se sømmelige ut....det er heller ikke så altfor lenge siden det var utenkelig at en kvinne skulle ta seg høyere utdannelse enn folkeskole, og det var slettes ikke en selvfølge at hun kunne gifte seg med hvem hun ville.  Det var det foreldrene som bestemte.  Gamle Norge har mange likhetstrekk med noen av dagens muslimske land når det gjelder kvinnundertrykking.

[AnonymBruker]

1 time siden, Mystix skrev:

Det er ikke så mange tiår siden norske gifte kvinner hadde det likedan, de måtte gå med konelin eller skaut etter de var gift for å se sømmelige ut....det er heller ikke så altfor lenge siden det var utenkelig at en kvinne skulle ta seg høyere utdannelse enn folkeskole, og det var slettes ikke en selvfølge at hun kunne gifte seg med hvem hun ville.  Det var det foreldrene som bestemte.  Gamle Norge har mange likhetstrekk med noen av dagens muslimske land når det gjelder kvinnundertrykking.

Forskjellen er jo selvfølgelig at kristendommen i Norden faktisk har utviklet seg med tiden, og kommet seg videre. 

Men visse andre religioner har egentlig aldri forbedret seg iløpet av 1 000 år, og disse kommer mest sannsynlig aldri til å gjøre det heller... 

Anonymkode: 42067...17c

[Djungelvrål]

1 minutt siden, AnonymBruker skrev:

Forskjellen er jo selvfølgelig at kristendommen i Norden faktisk har utviklet seg med tiden, og kommet seg videre. 

Men visse andre religioner har egentlig aldri forbedret seg iløpet av 1 000 år, og disse kommer mest sannsynlig aldri til å gjøre det heller... 

Anonymkode: 42067...17c

Hvis du ser videoen til Wubwub over her ser du at kvinner i muslimske land ikke alltid har hatt det slik de har det idag. De har det verre i mange land i dag enn de hadde det for 1000 år siden.  Se fra 09.55. men det er verdt å få med hele. 

[AnonymBruker]

Syns selv det er litt underlig når jeg ser små arabiske og afirkanske jenter med hijab. Da snakker vi 5-6år. 

Anonymkode: ccd4e...5cd

[Mari Y]

Faktisk har det ikke alltid vært slik at kvinner har gått med hijab i muslimske land. Iran, f eks, var veldig Vestlig frem til 80-tallet. Men dette var nok også mye pga shahen. Også prinsesse Rania av Jordan går heller ikke med slør. Jeg tror mye av dette i nyere tid har sammenheng med politisk islam. Men det har sikkert vært noe mer vanlig blant tradisjonelle samfunn, i tillegg.