Panama-mysteriet. Der ligger bevisene på bildene...

[miss summers]

Et belgisk eller fransk par gikk samme stien bare noen få dager etter jentene. Ble advart mot å gå alene grunnet forsvinningen og at de som bor langs stien hadde meldt at de hørte hyl og/eller skrik. 
 

[Aureka]

39 minutter siden, Sam Jones skrev:

Den er grei, du trenger ikke rope, men leste meg opp på det nå. Så det ikke noe sted i denne tråden, har lest hele, men kan selvsagt ha oversett noe. : )

Du hørte meg i alle fall;)

[MonicaM]

3 minutter siden, miss summers skrev:

Et belgisk eller fransk par gikk samme stien bare noen få dager etter jentene. Ble advart mot å gå alene grunnet forsvinningen og at de som bor langs stien hadde meldt at de hørte hyl og/eller skrik. 
 

Kom de seg ut av jungelen igjen?

[Mentos]

Tror de ble tatt. Hunden kom seg jo tilbake. Tror ikke hunden ville forlatt dem uten videre.

[Luckiness]

Dersom de av ulike årsaker ble værende lenger i jungelen enn planlagt, så har de neppe hatt med seg nok vann og mat. Dersom de skal ha funnet vann/mat kan det være de ikke har turt å innta dette av redsel for å bli syk. En dehydrert person kan gi en forvirringstilstand. Sjokk kan også påvirke atferden og sinnstilstander til en person. Feks dersom en ble skadet/døde og den andre ble igjen alene på leting etter hjelp. Dette kan være en årsak til rare bilder og/eller at kameraet ikke ble brukt på flere dager. Kameraet kan også ha vært mistet/glemt/lagt et «trygt» sted for så å ha blitt funnet siden. 
 

Jeg har null peiling på jungel og Panama...Men kan jentene ha fått i seg et rusmiddel? Og derfor vært «vekke»/ikke i stand til å ta bilder på noen dager? Feks dersom urbefolkningen har gitt dem noe/tatt dem til fange og dopet dem. 

[miss summers]

2 minutter siden, MonicaM skrev:

Kom de seg ut av jungelen igjen?

Ja, de har skrevet om det. At de ble bedt om å bruke guide grunnet forsvinningen, men gikk likevel. 

[opprørsk]

9 minutter siden, Luckiness said:

Jeg har null peiling på jungel og Panama...Men kan jentene ha fått i seg et rusmiddel? Og derfor vært «vekke»/ikke i stand til å ta bilder på noen dager? Feks dersom urbefolkningen har gitt dem noe/tatt dem til fange og dopet dem. 

Ja, det er massevis av planter og vekster man absolutt ikke bør innta i en jungel. Feks en te laget på planter fra Sør-Amerika som kalles ayahuasca, for å gå inn i transe. Av sjamaner brukes det som medisin. Jeg har fått tilbudet, men takket pent nei. Ønsket ikke å ligge bevisstløs i mange timer. Dette var dog i Peru.

Endret 30. juni 2020 av opprørsk

[Mynona]

18 timer siden, MadameDeRosa skrev:

Det ser veldig ut som en maske iom også at man ser outlinen oppå panna og at det er mye større enn hva ansiktet hennes ville ha vært...

 

Dette er jo bare sol og skygge fra blader og trær. 

6 timer siden, IkkeAnonymBruker skrev:

Jeg syns bildet av papiret som ligger strødd er veldig merkelig. Mellom speilet og stroppen (fra sekken?) så er ligger det som ser ut som et turistkart, matcher et bilde av jentene på en kafé hvor de titter i kartet.

Her er det jo masse papir som ligger opprevet og strødd, så om det var overlevende Lisanne som hadde lagt ut dette for å signalisere SOS eller noe, kunne hun jo også tatt et bilde ovenfra?

Hvorfor skal hun ta bilde av at hun har lagt dopapir rundt? Hvis hun prøvde å få hjelp via dette, så var det vel ikke et sånt turistbilde moment akkurat. Det var vel desperasjon.

5 timer siden, Bix skrev:

Problemet med "nattbildene" er at det er mange bilder tatt innenfor et kort tidsrom kun denne ene natten.

Hvis bildene hadde hatt en bestemt funksjon, ville det vel vært naturlig også å ta noen bilder andre netter, og dersom man ville dokumentere omgivelsene, kunne man ha ventet to timer til soloppgang da man ikke trengte å bruke blitz, fikk bedre lys, og sparte batteriet. Hvorfor så mange bilder bare denne ene natten, og ingen flere bilder på dagtid ....?

Hva var det som hastet slik - trodde fotografen at hun kom til å dø? Eller brukte man blitzen til å lyse opp natten, og holde slanger unna?

Det kan hende hun/de ikke tenkte på at de kunne bruke blitzen før den natta. Det kan hende de kom på det den natta. Eller det kan være at de akkurat denne natta hadde behov for å forflytte seg og dermed trengte å lyse opp i glimt for å se om det var en trygg sti de gikk på. 

5 timer siden, Ikanonym skrev:

Det er samme bh de hadde på seg som lå i sekken. Det gjør ting veldig mye rarere. Leste det i Koude Kaas bloggen.

Ja, det tenkte jeg på og. Hvorfor de har tatt av seg BHene og lagt i sekken. 

4 timer siden, Hotwife skrev:

Men kun "blitzet" den ene natta? 

Som jeg skrev over, så kan det hende de ikke kom på det før denne natta. 

 

sJeg synes at forklaringen om at det er en ulykke er ganske pålitelig, men samtidig så er det noen biter som ikke faller helt på plass. Det er noe som skurrer. 

Sekken som var tørr og fin og dukket opp flere måneder etter de forsvant f.eks. Og shortsen, hvorfor skulle hun ta av seg shorts og BH når hun var lost i jungelen? Ha på bare truse og singlet gir liksom ikke så mye mening. Og disse beina som viser forskjellig grad av forråtnelse, noe var kjemisk bleket. Og beinrester? 

Denne saken berørte meg skikkelig. Vet ikke hva det var, men kanskje det var det at vi faktisk får se ekte bilder som er tatt etter de forsvant som gjorde det så veldig ekkelt. Og veldig ekte. 

[bordogstol]

16 minutter siden, opprørsk skrev:

Nå bryr ikke jeg meg så mye om sekter, men heller stammebefolkninger. Har selv vært i flere deler av feks Amazonasjungelen, men aldri Panama. Det er nok langt flere stammer enn mennesker kjenner til, som vi aldri har «oppdaget». Noen har nærmest aldri hatt kontakt med mennesker utenfor jungele, og mange er veldig primitive og kan være aggressive mot «inntrengere». Selv har jeg lest mest om sambia-stammen og deres praksis med «rituell homofili», hvor yngre menn utfører oralsex på eldre menn i et slags rituale mot å bli voksen, samt korowai-stammen som visstnok fortsatt er aktiv innen kannibalisme. Dette er mennesker spm lever et helt annet liv enn vi gjør i den vestlige verden, og det er derfor jeg synes det er interessant. Personlig ville jeg aldri gått inn i jungelen uten en guide eller flere. Både med tanke på ville dyr, stammefolk, muligheten for å gå seg vill, osv. Jeg tror ikke så mye på psykopater som lurer i buskene inne i jungelen, som noen her inne forslo.

Ja, det er mange interessante samfunn der folk lever helt annerledes enn det vi gjør. Imidlertid er det vanskelig/umulig å finne urfolk i Mellom-Amerika som ikke har kontakt med majoritetsbefolkningen/folk fra andre land. De aller fleste under 50 år snakker spansk, og mange kan ikke snakke sitt opprinnelige språk, og deres kultur endrer seg i takt med moderniseringen. I likhet med andre samfunn finnes det sosiale avvik blant urfolk også, blant dem lever også psykopater, pedofile, kriminelle, rusmisbrukere osv. Akkurat som i mitt og ditt hjemsted. Disse avvikene har ingenting å gjøre med etnisitet eller kulturell bakgrunn. Det kan godt hende at en psykopat drepte jentene. Han kan ha vært fra Panama eller et annet land. 

[Bix]

Flott at engasjementet her er stort, og det er svært interessant å lese om de som har hatt personlige erfaringer med både jungel og stammefolk, men ettersom noen få av kommentarene her begynner å repetere ting som er blitt nevnt tidligere i tråden, tenkte jeg at det kanskje ikke kunne skade med litt struktur - slik man ville ha gjort det i en vanlig politietterforskning.

Aller først - lenker; for de av dere som kanskje enda ikke har satt dere helt inn i saken eller lest hele tråden; Koude Kaas-bloggen er en glimrende kilde til informasjon - her er lenkene til de fire delene:

Koude Kaas: 1. del

Koude Kaas: 2. del

Koude Kaas: 3. del

Koude Kaas: 4. del

Så lurte jeg på om det kanskje kunne være en idé å finne noen grunnleggende spørsmål som man i fellesskap kunne besvare - slik man gjør det i en standard krim-serie der tavlen er full av bilder, piler, og notater, og etterforskeren sitter til langt på natt og klør seg i hodet før han klokken halv fire om natten ringer til en kollega for å fortelle hva han har funnet ut.

Har dere noen spørsmål dere føler er essensielle her, der svaret på disse kan lede frem til et svar på mysteriet?

[bordogstol]

18 minutter siden, Mentos skrev:

Tror de ble tatt. Hunden kom seg jo tilbake. Tror ikke hunden ville forlatt dem uten videre.

Er det ikke vanlig at hunder går hjem dersom eieren blir utsatt for en ulykke/dør? F.eks hunden til hun som ble drept av en tenåring i Kristiansand gikk hjem igjen. Og husker at ei kvinne gikk tur med hunden på isen ved Halden. Kvinnen gikk gjennom isen og omkom, mens hunden kom søkkvåt hjem. Tenker heller det motsatte. Ville ikke hunden beskyttet jentene dersom de ble utsatt for noe kriminelt?

[Hinkelpinkel]

Kort oppsummering av alle spørsmålene jeg har i denne saken: 😄 Ser det er noen som syntes å ha alle svarene! 🙂

 

*Who erased data from Lisanne Froon’s camera—and why?

*Why won’t Panamanian national authorities release the Holandesas’ full autopsies? 

*Why haven’t they followed up on the leads produced by their own forensic examiners, the Chiriquí police force, and local reporters? Or launched a thorough investigation into the other unsolved deaths and missing person cases in the area?

*Why do we not know whose fingerprints were on the digital camera and the phones? We really do need to know who made the last phone calls to 911 and 112, fingerprint analysis could help with that.

*How about the water bottle and its water remnants; were the water molecules found in the small plastic water bottle from supermarket quality water? Or was it water from a local river? Or local tap water perhaps that was last in it?

*Why were there no DNA samples taken from possible saliva remnants?

*The girls had warned other youngsters in Bocas del Toro to not venture out alone without a guide and they were known to be meticulous planners, so why did they themselves did decide to go out alone on a wilderness hike? (Perhaps because it was touted to be just a 'pleasant day hike' by Lonely Planet?) Or were they not alone after all?

*Why was Blue the dog who supposedly walked along with them never seen in any of their photographs?

*Why didn’t the girls turn back after they placed their 1st emergency call? 

*Since they got into trouble so early in the trip, as evidenced by their emergency calls, how could they have fallen into a river 12 hours away? 

*There are many wooden sheds and small wooden cabins along the river and scattered around the terrain where Kris and Lisanne could have ended up, going by the location where their remains were scattered: why wouldn't they have hidden in there if they truly were lost? Waiting for the rescue teams to find them there? 

*Why do the statements of all the witnesses contradict the photo time evidence? 

*Why has the exact location of the 90 nighttime photos never been thoroughly investigated and established? 

*Why are so many witness statements off with the time at which they stated to have seen the girls on April 1st? 

*Why have the video recordings of them in Boquete that day never been released or even fully investigated, and why do we not know therefore what time they were still in Boquete on April 1st?

*How could they get 'lost' on a one way, easy road, and in an inhabited world where Ngobe natives walk the mountain trails daily with their cattle, on top of it all?

*Why did we hear nothing about the drugs- and gang wars going on in Boquete around 2014, with at least 15 local gangs rivaling for power? 

*How is it possible for the Dutch forensics to conclude that the 90 nighttime photos were all dark, when at least five photos have since turned up and out to have a clear landscape on them once the photo settings were slightly altered? In fact: why do they and the families lie about this?

*And why are the other 85 or so nighttime photos so closely guarded and do officials and family refuse to make them public, claiming they also show 'nothing but blackness' (a lie)? 

*Why have we not been shown all the photos on the photo memory card? 

*How come nobody could retrieve even a few percent of photo 509, despite this being the norm when a photo is just manually deleted?

*How was it possible for Kris and Lisanne to switch their phones on so methodically at set times, without having a watch or means to know the time in the jungle? 

*WHY were there no more photos or even videos made of the girls and by the girls for EIGHT WHOLE DAYS AND NIGHTS after April 1st? 

*Why did they not once try to call their parents at home, or their host family nearby? 

*Why were there no draft messages or other signs of life for their loved ones found back? 

*How come after 5 days alone in the wild (supposedly), the girls seemingly didn't memorize each others telephones pin codes? 

*Did Lisanne's Samsung phone ever get a correct PIN code entered or not, considering all that phone ever tried to call were the two emergency numbers, which could be reached without entering a PIN code... 

*If they were lost and realized this, why cross two big rivers, leading further into the wilderness? (Because their remains were found in an area where you had to cross those rivers).

*If they were lost for 11 days, how come nobody found them despite local natives living there and many people using the area behind the Pianista, not to mention the legions of searchers? 

*Why have we never seen or been given the exact location where they supposedly fell and 'perished'?

*Where is that ravine with photo proof of their remains, or parts of clothes, or even markings of their shoes? Plus an explanation from the rescue teams about why they were never found on that spot, despite weeks of thorough searches and a team leader declaring they were not there as every stone was turned?

*Why did the Prosecutor declare the girls were dragged to their deaths in the river when the pathologists say the bones show no sign of abrasion or injury markings whatsoever? 

*What was the real reason that the taxi driver died?

*Did Osman Valenzuela die by accident or was he murdered? And is it true that he had photos on his phone of girls matching the description of Kris and Lisanne?

*What made Lisanné's foot break off at the ankle and how come her foot still had flesh on it while Kris' bone remnants were bleached? 

*Why was there bleach on one Kris' bones? 

*Where are alll their other remains, aside from the handful of small bones found? 

*Why were their remains found so far from the summit of the Pianista trail, and scattered around?

*How come the cheap backpack is said to have been floating in a 'wild river' for weeks, but the electronics inside had no water damage and was in full functioning order? And the cheap sunglasses in it were in perfect state?

*If the backpack had been in the water, why weren’t the contents decayed and why were they in such good condition? 

*Was the backpack planted? Prosecutor Pitti calls such insinuations “Irresponsible” and “without foundation.” (Panama News) 

*How did the jeans shorts from Kris get off and why were their bra's folded up and packed in their backpack? DID they in fact go for a swim after their Pianista hike, as some sources claim, and is that why they folded up their bra's and shorts voluntarily, by themselves?

*From who was the blue shoe found? 

*Why were their shorts and underpants never found back?

 

 

 

[miss summers]

@Hinkelpinkel 

Lisannes sko som ble funnet. Foten viste ingen skader og var intakt med hud.
 

Du kommer med påstand om foten hennes og spør hvems fot det var, i samme innlegg 😬
 

 

[Hinkelpinkel]

1 minutt siden, miss summers skrev:

@Hinkelpinkel 

Lisannes sko som ble funnet. Foten viste ingen skader og var intakt med hud.
 

Du kommer med påstand om foten hennes og spør hvems fot det var, i samme innlegg 😬
 

 

Det var en annen sko...en BLÅ sko. Dette er forøvrig ikke mine spørsmål, de er tatt fra Koude Kaas bloggen, derfor på engelsk.

[Gjest Lin11]

Akkurat nå, Hinkelpinkel skrev:

Kort oppsummering av alle spørsmålene jeg har i denne saken: 😄 Ser det er noen som syntes å ha alle svarene! 🙂

 

*Who erased data from Lisanne Froon’s camera—and why?

*Why won’t Panamanian national authorities release the Holandesas’ full autopsies? 

*Why haven’t they followed up on the leads produced by their own forensic examiners, the Chiriquí police force, and local reporters? Or launched a thorough investigation into the other unsolved deaths and missing person cases in the area?

*Why do we not know whose fingerprints were on the digital camera and the phones? We really do need to know who made the last phone calls to 911 and 112, fingerprint analysis could help with that.

*How about the water bottle and its water remnants; were the water molecules found in the small plastic water bottle from supermarket quality water? Or was it water from a local river? Or local tap water perhaps that was last in it?

*Why were there no DNA samples taken from possible saliva remnants?

*The girls had warned other youngsters in Bocas del Toro to not venture out alone without a guide and they were known to be meticulous planners, so why did they themselves did decide to go out alone on a wilderness hike? (Perhaps because it was touted to be just a 'pleasant day hike' by Lonely Planet?) Or were they not alone after all?

*Why was Blue the dog who supposedly walked along with them never seen in any of their photographs?

*Why didn’t the girls turn back after they placed their 1st emergency call? 

*Since they got into trouble so early in the trip, as evidenced by their emergency calls, how could they have fallen into a river 12 hours away? 

*There are many wooden sheds and small wooden cabins along the river and scattered around the terrain where Kris and Lisanne could have ended up, going by the location where their remains were scattered: why wouldn't they have hidden in there if they truly were lost? Waiting for the rescue teams to find them there? 

*Why do the statements of all the witnesses contradict the photo time evidence? 

*Why has the exact location of the 90 nighttime photos never been thoroughly investigated and established? 

*Why are so many witness statements off with the time at which they stated to have seen the girls on April 1st? 

*Why have the video recordings of them in Boquete that day never been released or even fully investigated, and why do we not know therefore what time they were still in Boquete on April 1st?

*How could they get 'lost' on a one way, easy road, and in an inhabited world where Ngobe natives walk the mountain trails daily with their cattle, on top of it all?

*Why did we hear nothing about the drugs- and gang wars going on in Boquete around 2014, with at least 15 local gangs rivaling for power? 

*How is it possible for the Dutch forensics to conclude that the 90 nighttime photos were all dark, when at least five photos have since turned up and out to have a clear landscape on them once the photo settings were slightly altered? In fact: why do they and the families lie about this?

*And why are the other 85 or so nighttime photos so closely guarded and do officials and family refuse to make them public, claiming they also show 'nothing but blackness' (a lie)? 

*Why have we not been shown all the photos on the photo memory card? 

*How come nobody could retrieve even a few percent of photo 509, despite this being the norm when a photo is just manually deleted?

*How was it possible for Kris and Lisanne to switch their phones on so methodically at set times, without having a watch or means to know the time in the jungle? 

*WHY were there no more photos or even videos made of the girls and by the girls for EIGHT WHOLE DAYS AND NIGHTS after April 1st? 

*Why did they not once try to call their parents at home, or their host family nearby? 

*Why were there no draft messages or other signs of life for their loved ones found back? 

*How come after 5 days alone in the wild (supposedly), the girls seemingly didn't memorize each others telephones pin codes? 

*Did Lisanne's Samsung phone ever get a correct PIN code entered or not, considering all that phone ever tried to call were the two emergency numbers, which could be reached without entering a PIN code... 

*If they were lost and realized this, why cross two big rivers, leading further into the wilderness? (Because their remains were found in an area where you had to cross those rivers).

*If they were lost for 11 days, how come nobody found them despite local natives living there and many people using the area behind the Pianista, not to mention the legions of searchers? 

*Why have we never seen or been given the exact location where they supposedly fell and 'perished'?

*Where is that ravine with photo proof of their remains, or parts of clothes, or even markings of their shoes? Plus an explanation from the rescue teams about why they were never found on that spot, despite weeks of thorough searches and a team leader declaring they were not there as every stone was turned?

*Why did the Prosecutor declare the girls were dragged to their deaths in the river when the pathologists say the bones show no sign of abrasion or injury markings whatsoever? 

*What was the real reason that the taxi driver died?

*Did Osman Valenzuela die by accident or was he murdered? And is it true that he had photos on his phone of girls matching the description of Kris and Lisanne?

*What made Lisanné's foot break off at the ankle and how come her foot still had flesh on it while Kris' bone remnants were bleached? 

*Why was there bleach on one Kris' bones? 

*Where are alll their other remains, aside from the handful of small bones found? 

*Why were their remains found so far from the summit of the Pianista trail, and scattered around?

*How come the cheap backpack is said to have been floating in a 'wild river' for weeks, but the electronics inside had no water damage and was in full functioning order? And the cheap sunglasses in it were in perfect state?

*If the backpack had been in the water, why weren’t the contents decayed and why were they in such good condition? 

*Was the backpack planted? Prosecutor Pitti calls such insinuations “Irresponsible” and “without foundation.” (Panama News) 

*How did the jeans shorts from Kris get off and why were their bra's folded up and packed in their backpack? DID they in fact go for a swim after their Pianista hike, as some sources claim, and is that why they folded up their bra's and shorts voluntarily, by themselves?

*From who was the blue shoe found? 

*Why were their shorts and underpants never found back?

 

 

 

Mange bra spørsmål.

[Bix]

10 minutter siden, Hinkelpinkel said:

Kort oppsummering av alle spørsmålene jeg har i denne saken: 😄 Ser det er noen som syntes å ha alle svarene! 🙂

 

*Who erased data from Lisanne Froon’s camera—and why?

*Why won’t Panamanian national authorities release the Holandesas’ full autopsies? 

*Why haven’t they followed up on the leads produced by their own forensic examiners, the Chiriquí police force, and local reporters? Or launched a thorough investigation into the other unsolved deaths and missing person cases in the area?

*Why do we not know whose fingerprints were on the digital camera and the phones? We really do need to know who made the last phone calls to 911 and 112, fingerprint analysis could help with that.

*How about the water bottle and its water remnants; were the water molecules found in the small plastic water bottle from supermarket quality water? Or was it water from a local river? Or local tap water perhaps that was last in it?

*Why were there no DNA samples taken from possible saliva remnants?

*The girls had warned other youngsters in Bocas del Toro to not venture out alone without a guide and they were known to be meticulous planners, so why did they themselves did decide to go out alone on a wilderness hike? (Perhaps because it was touted to be just a 'pleasant day hike' by Lonely Planet?) Or were they not alone after all?

*Why was Blue the dog who supposedly walked along with them never seen in any of their photographs?

*Why didn’t the girls turn back after they placed their 1st emergency call? 

*Since they got into trouble so early in the trip, as evidenced by their emergency calls, how could they have fallen into a river 12 hours away? 

*There are many wooden sheds and small wooden cabins along the river and scattered around the terrain where Kris and Lisanne could have ended up, going by the location where their remains were scattered: why wouldn't they have hidden in there if they truly were lost? Waiting for the rescue teams to find them there? 

*Why do the statements of all the witnesses contradict the photo time evidence? 

*Why has the exact location of the 90 nighttime photos never been thoroughly investigated and established? 

*Why are so many witness statements off with the time at which they stated to have seen the girls on April 1st? 

*Why have the video recordings of them in Boquete that day never been released or even fully investigated, and why do we not know therefore what time they were still in Boquete on April 1st?

*How could they get 'lost' on a one way, easy road, and in an inhabited world where Ngobe natives walk the mountain trails daily with their cattle, on top of it all?

*Why did we hear nothing about the drugs- and gang wars going on in Boquete around 2014, with at least 15 local gangs rivaling for power? 

*How is it possible for the Dutch forensics to conclude that the 90 nighttime photos were all dark, when at least five photos have since turned up and out to have a clear landscape on them once the photo settings were slightly altered? In fact: why do they and the families lie about this?

*And why are the other 85 or so nighttime photos so closely guarded and do officials and family refuse to make them public, claiming they also show 'nothing but blackness' (a lie)? 

*Why have we not been shown all the photos on the photo memory card? 

*How come nobody could retrieve even a few percent of photo 509, despite this being the norm when a photo is just manually deleted?

*How was it possible for Kris and Lisanne to switch their phones on so methodically at set times, without having a watch or means to know the time in the jungle? 

*WHY were there no more photos or even videos made of the girls and by the girls for EIGHT WHOLE DAYS AND NIGHTS after April 1st? 

*Why did they not once try to call their parents at home, or their host family nearby? 

*Why were there no draft messages or other signs of life for their loved ones found back? 

*How come after 5 days alone in the wild (supposedly), the girls seemingly didn't memorize each others telephones pin codes? 

*Did Lisanne's Samsung phone ever get a correct PIN code entered or not, considering all that phone ever tried to call were the two emergency numbers, which could be reached without entering a PIN code... 

*If they were lost and realized this, why cross two big rivers, leading further into the wilderness? (Because their remains were found in an area where you had to cross those rivers).

*If they were lost for 11 days, how come nobody found them despite local natives living there and many people using the area behind the Pianista, not to mention the legions of searchers? 

*Why have we never seen or been given the exact location where they supposedly fell and 'perished'?

*Where is that ravine with photo proof of their remains, or parts of clothes, or even markings of their shoes? Plus an explanation from the rescue teams about why they were never found on that spot, despite weeks of thorough searches and a team leader declaring they were not there as every stone was turned?

*Why did the Prosecutor declare the girls were dragged to their deaths in the river when the pathologists say the bones show no sign of abrasion or injury markings whatsoever? 

*What was the real reason that the taxi driver died?

*Did Osman Valenzuela die by accident or was he murdered? And is it true that he had photos on his phone of girls matching the description of Kris and Lisanne?

*What made Lisanné's foot break off at the ankle and how come her foot still had flesh on it while Kris' bone remnants were bleached? 

*Why was there bleach on one Kris' bones? 

*Where are alll their other remains, aside from the handful of small bones found? 

*Why were their remains found so far from the summit of the Pianista trail, and scattered around?

*How come the cheap backpack is said to have been floating in a 'wild river' for weeks, but the electronics inside had no water damage and was in full functioning order? And the cheap sunglasses in it were in perfect state?

*If the backpack had been in the water, why weren’t the contents decayed and why were they in such good condition? 

*Was the backpack planted? Prosecutor Pitti calls such insinuations “Irresponsible” and “without foundation.” (Panama News) 

*How did the jeans shorts from Kris get off and why were their bra's folded up and packed in their backpack? DID they in fact go for a swim after their Pianista hike, as some sources claim, and is that why they folded up their bra's and shorts voluntarily, by themselves?

*From who was the blue shoe found? 

*Why were their shorts and underpants never found back?

Tusen takk for listen - her er det mye interessant å tenke på.

For å begynne med spørsmål nummer 1:

Who erased data from Lisanne Froon’s camera—and why?

Mitt forslag er at et korrupt politi er den sterkeste kandidaten her, ettersom en kriminell ville risikere atskillig mer dersom det slettede bildet likevel ble gjenopprettet, og ville trolig ha valgt å beholde minnekortet eller ødelegge det. Hvem politiet nå enn handlet på ordre av - bildet eller videoen (litt mindre sannsynlig, da jentene bare tok bilder) var iallfall borte da etterforskerne i Nederland fikk kortet.

Hva er din mening ...?

Endret 30. juni 2020 av Bix

[Haakman]

1 minutt siden, Bix skrev:

Tusen takk for listen - her er det mye interessant å tenke på.

For å begynne med spørsmål nummer 1:

Who erased data from Lisanne Froon’s camera—and why?

Mitt forslag er at et korrupt politi er den sterkeste kandidaten her, ettersom en kriminell ville risikere atskillig mer dersom det slettede bildet likevel ble gjenopprettet, og ville trolig ha valgt å beholde minnekortet eller ødelegge det. Hvem politiet nå enn handlet på ordre av .- bildet eller videoen (litt mindre sannsynlig, da jentene bare tok bilder) var iallfall borte da etterforskerne i Nederland fikk kortet.

Hva er din mening ...?

Hvordan vet bloggeren at det mangler et bilde? 

[Lærke]

Jeg hadde en gang et Canon kompaktkamera som innimellom hoppet over et tall på bilder. Hadde tatt feks. bilde 11 og neste ble bilde 13, uten at noe var slettet.

Feil på kamera er ikke umulig. 

[Bix]

24 minutter siden, Haakman said:

Hvordan vet bloggeren at det mangler et bilde? 

Myndighetene har selv bekreftet dette, så fraværet av 509 er ikke bloggerens subjektive mening:

Quote

It also casts more doubt on the fate of the deleted photo #509, because soon after June 17th, officials stated that photo 509 had irreparable disappeared.

Det samme gjelder alle som har vært, eller er opptatt av saken - ingen tviler på eksistensen av fil 509.

Bruker Koude Kaas: 1. del som kilde her, men tviler ikke på at hovedkilden er å finne andre steder; det er bare å google "missing photo 509 panama" og lete videre - her er to lenker:

Quora

Reddit

Wikipedia har også en lang liste med lenker, men har ikke hatt tid til å sjekke dem.

Endret 30. juni 2020 av Bix

[bordogstol]

12 minutter siden, Haakman skrev:

Hvordan vet bloggeren at det mangler et bilde? 

Noen som har funnet en god kilde som svarer på dette spørsmålet?